Congratulations obama

YAAY OBAMA!
I betted with my friend he would get shot today, or at least an attempt too shoot him

(no offence amerika! love u ppl)

dont think some people can stand a black pres (not that im on of em!)

Who? Where? What?

I dont know a {AR}obama

lol at wulfman

*warno quickly changes his name into {AR}Obama*

aha now you see:P

{AR}Warno wrote:

lol at wulfman

*warno quickly changes his name into {AR}Obama*

aha now you see:P

Better not change your name into obama, now you can only play allies fieldops

ROFL!

LOL!!

Ninjadeer wrote:

{AR}Warno wrote:

lol at wulfman

*warno quickly changes his name into {AR}Obama*

aha now you see:P

Better not change your name into obama, now you can only play allies fieldops

lol that so hit the nail on the head (don' know this expression is correct in english, please not if not )

Perfect Use of the Expression

Lol

BTW:

GOBAMA!

I had the priviliage to watch the inauguration very moving hopefully moving into the start of something new

wilk101 wrote:

I had the priviliage to watch the inauguration very moving hopefully moving into the start of something new

Same, we watched it for two hours at school.

well you can hope but like they say "hope for the best but be prepared for the worst" i have heard alot of presidents and leaders all say theya re gonna change things for the better still waiting but not quite so patiently anymore

{AR}Shadow wrote:

ranger1 wrote:

well you can hope but like they say "hope for the best but be prepared for the worst" i have heard alot of presidents and leaders all say theya re gonna change things for the better still waiting but not quite so patiently anymore

you got a point

but when people say this to me, if he can't do it, who can?

a lot of people believe in him, he got an quite hard mission to fulfil, but he got a good team and the right reasons (if you don't do it, the world is going to get quite screwed)

i wish we had such charismatic leaders in belgium

Yes, very charismatic.... so was Adolf Hitler......

His team worries me greatly. Most are very capable but I hope they can keep there personal agendas in check.

He has already signed executive orders crippling the intelligence department. Just a matter of time before we get hit again.....

Nationalization of healthcare and the banking system....

This could become a nightmare in a hurry.

I really hope he knows what he is doing and I hope congress does there job of checks and balances.

{AR}Falkoner wrote:

Yes, very charismatic.... so was Adolf Hitler......

His team worries me greatly. Most are very capable but I hope they can keep there personal agendas in check.

He has already signed executive orders crippling the intelligence department. Just a matter of time before we get hit again.....

Nationalization of healthcare and the banking system....

This could become a nightmare in a hurry.

I really hope he knows what he is doing and I hope congress does there job of checks and balances.

Hmm. You have some interesting points. Atleast hes intentions look genuine.
I was worried at first too, but for as far as I could see hes team seems to be the best or capable to be the best, if they all figure out how to work as a team. Means that they all will have to keep their personal agendas in check like you said. He will have some major keeping in check to do between all those one-man-shows (meaning they like to make their own decisions, cause they think they know best).

I guess time will tell. Its not like we have a choice in the matter anymore. America had 2 choices... Mccain, which seemed like another Bush, or someone new who seems to have good intentions. Even if Obama screws up, America atleast chose the best of the worst. Though I dont think everyone will look at it that way. More like: He screwed up, we never shouldve chosen a black president (eventhough I dont really get that, since hes not really black).

As I said before: Time will tell...

{AR}Falkoner wrote:

Yes, very charismatic.... so was Adolf Hitler......

His team worries me greatly. Most are very capable but I hope they can keep there personal agendas in check.

He has already signed executive orders crippling the intelligence department. Just a matter of time before we get hit again.....

Nationalization of healthcare and the banking system....

This could become a nightmare in a hurry.

I really hope he knows what he is doing and I hope congress does there job of checks and balances.

Well, he's atleast trying. The system is broken and has to get fixed. World economy can't survive 2 more years like this, so unfortunately conservatism is in this case not an option.

ps: i'm not a communist ^^

{AR}Falkoner wrote:

Yes, very charismatic.... so was Adolf Hitler......

His team worries me greatly. Most are very capable but I hope they can keep there personal agendas in check.

He has already signed executive orders crippling the intelligence department. Just a matter of time before we get hit again.....

Nationalization of healthcare and the banking system....

This could become a nightmare in a hurry.

I really hope he knows what he is doing and I hope congress does there job of checks and balances.

Actually i find his team to be quite filling and powerful. Unfortunatly you make a point with the intellegence but I don't believe we will get hit again for the reason why we are in Afghanistan and Iraq at the moment. It is the same effect as Peral Harbor. Someone hits America, America hits back 10x harder. I have great confidence in this man and are confident he will lead us into prosperity.

lol, like I said... I hope he knows what he is doing.....

It is ironic though that socialist countries are going more free market and we are going more socialist though.....

I do think he has good intentions. And obviously more of the same was not an option. I don't think McCain would have been more of the same either but he didn't sell himself very well.
As far as Bush, I think history will be a little kinder as we learn more about what went on behind the scenes. I don't agree with a lot of his decisions but I do admire his backbone. Completely opposite of the Clinton era of lies and double crossing garbage that helped bring about this recession we are now in.

Pres Obama has the gift of leadership. I really hope he uses that gift to its full potential in a good way. And doesn't sell himself short just to please his political party. As he did when he selected Biden as VP.
I expect he will do what Roosevelt did and try a hundred different things, none of which worked in Roosevelt's case. What eventually ended the great depression was WWII.
Hopefully we don't have do that again.

Falk, didn't know you were such a conservative. You haven't been listening to too much of that talk radio on AM have you?

It seems all I ever hear from the Bush backers is that he wasn't really responsible for the problems during his 8 years. It was the "trickle-down" effect from the previous administration and Clinton's successes for 8 years were the "trickle-down" effects from Bush 41. So basically both Bushes got screwed over, one for getting beat by the hotshot Clinton, and the other for inheriting all the horrible policies of the Clinton era. Plus, the whole Monica thing scarred everybody forever.

The good thing about Obama is that he is half black and people (especially those on the right) have to put their opinions aside for the better of the country. What is unfortunate is that everything is such a mess anymore after the Right implemented their policies and wars on the rest of us. It is nice that the voters have spoken and have refused to let them have much power or decision-making abilities at least for awhile now.

I'm not sure if the association to Hitler or the socialism reference is exactly fair.
Just my opinion. I voted for Ralph Nader because Ron Paul (who is Republican) was not on the ballot in my state.

Its strange that in america socialism is quickly associated with national socialism..
We in belgium also have socialists but they are in no way related to national socialism.

* just observatorial *

We teetering on the edge of fascism I tell you!!!!!!!

You did not have Ron Paul on your ballot? How come?

Anyways John Williams composed a piece for him, yo-yo ma played, could not emagine a better ceremonie.

Because we only have one space for the Independent candidate and Ralph Nader got the signatures to be on the ballot first.

2M!n
No, I'm not a Bush fan. He was a different kind of leader. He prefered to quietly do things behind the scenes. I think he did what he thought was right to keep us safe. Some of his methods were questionable. He eroded many of our freedoms and rights of privacy with his policies for the sake of "safety". I prefer to be less safe and have more privacy and freedom personally.
As far as Clinton goes..... He pushed the banks to make lots of high risk loans to people who couldn't afford them. And now they are all defaulting, thus the banks are failing..... When Clinton left office he left in disgrace. One scandal after another.
The World Trade Center (the first time), 2 US embassies and a Navy destroyer were bombed under Clinton and he did nothing. He would not push the button to defend the US. Frankly, Clinton was an embarrasment to the presidency.

Xeon
We have socialists here too. One in particular from my home state of Vermont in Congress. I don't see us going completely socialist but we are leaning more that way in our national agendas with the banking system, healthcare, and "spread the wealth" ideas. My point was we are losing freedoms here while other former socialist countries are gaining freedoms.

I'm rooting for Obama too. He has a heck of a mess to clean up.

I have every confidence he'll be able to pull it off. Atleast hes doing some stuff he promissed he'd do like closing Gitmo. I guess thats a start...

I think he will do things one thing at the time and do them the right way...
Atleast hes not jumping off the bridge without a parachute

As for public healthcare, from what I heard it sounds like it can't get much worse than it is now (again, only what I heard and read). In this matter I believe being "socialist" (as in - everyone is forced to pay health insurance, and everybody gets at least the minimal necessary healthcare) isn't a bad idea.

i think nationalisation of healthcare has many more advantages than privatising it. yeh sure privatising means less wait times and doctors getting more money; but when you get public health care system set up similar to the one in canada, you see a better overall quality of health, and a better overall quality of living, as people dont have to pay so much for being "healthy". Sure we have longer wait lines, but ill take that than not being able to recieve the right health-care due to my financial circumstances.

[quote="{AR}Falkoner"]

It is ironic though that socialist countries are going more free market and we are going more socialist though.....

/quote]

does that still exist?

social countries, or liberal countries
people don't know what they want these days, back in the '50 everything was clear, either you were socialist or liberal or conservative or something else(not saying it was better)

now socialism isn't really socialism (neither is liberalism)
they lean close the the socialistic view of life but they don't come even close the the true socialistic standpoints as they were in the past.

if you want a party to vote where they stand for then you need to vote for a smal party, they still believe in what they are telling

most of the rest are just interested in posts



and of course this is all subjective because i live in Belgium, the country with the weirdest political system ever

In my opinion, Obama has already made a huge mistake 3 days into the presidency. Closing Guantanamo Bay. The detention center in eastern cuba where the United States holds many people believed to be threats to this nation or "terrorists". With the closing who knows where they will go. Some will roam free. Wonderful, more terrorists that hate us are free people. I see no reason to close the faculity. I still have great faith in Obama but greatly disapprove of this "executive order" as its called over here in America.

This much to the idea of freed detainees running around with bombs:

Quote :

For years, Pentagon officials have claimed that the recidivism rate for prisoners released from Guantánamo is about 7 percent. Information released in May by the Department of Defense further buttresses the Saudi findings of a very low recidivism rate. The department’s list of named released detainees who have subsequently engaged in militant or terrorist activities anywhere in the world shows that 12 have done so, a recidivism rate of just 2 percent. In fact, the Pentagon can cite only six instances in which an inmate released from Guantánamo actually took up arms against the United States.

When recidivism rates for criminals typically run in the more than 60 percent range, and when at Guantánamo you have a rate in only the single digits, you don’t have much of a criminal (or in this case terrorist) population to begin with. We are hardly saying there are no terrorists at Guantánamo. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the operational commander of the 9/11 attacks, and others who were transferred there from secret overseas Central Intelligence Agency prisons in 2006 are certainly members of al Qaeda’s hard core.

What we are saying is that new statistics from the Saudi Ministry of Interior, corroborated by the Pentagon’s own findings, show that the overwhelming majority of individuals detained at Guantánamo not only were not terrorists, but were likely innocent of any crime.

(source)

wilk101 wrote:

I see no reason to close the faculity.

There's multiple sources claiming detainees have been tortured in the facility, even trustworthy sources like official UN observers. It's hard to impossible to find any solid numbers, but only minimum of the detainees was ever found guilty, and most sources say more than half were never accused in the first place. There's little doubt that the Geneva Conventions are being ignored there. US is waging a war "for freedom, democracy and human rights" yet you are so obviously denying the basic human rights to some, even without any evidence or even accusation, based solely on the presumption of guilt.

You see no reason why that facility should be closed? Seriously?

Let me ask a question then - if that US law didn't exclude US citizens from being allowed to be held in there, would you still support Guantanamo? Even if it meant the government could, at any time, take you and hold you prisoners for 6 years without ever presenting you with any reason, accusation or evidence? Do you fear terrorists more than you fear a government that has been given a free hand to act on its discretion, without need to provide any evidence or reasons?

What i think is this..hmm..Obama shuts down the Guantanamo..thats only one prison ..wheres another ones? is this only another way of making peoples feeling like we are now more closer to humanity?..Peace comes now..or does it comes ever?..Economy of U.S and on world will be now better than on years?.Polluting will be cutted like 30 procents on everywhere and U.S will follow the other countries on that area? Is this a true or just a Illusion? will terrorism ends ever? Who can REALLY say from the pure innocent heart what is a real terrorist ?...many questions..who knows the answer..I dont know..For this beautiful world of called an Earth..I do hope from the bottom of my heart that someone haves really good solutions to every questions that helps all.

I dont have honestly anything against of U.S ..I just really would like to see that my childs haves something left on this earth after Im gone.

and Yes! I really Hope that Obama makes U.S things to be much better than it is right now.

Congratz Obama

Major Zeman wrote:

This much to the idea of freed detainees running around with bombs:

Quote :

For years, Pentagon officials have claimed that the recidivism rate for prisoners released from Guantánamo is about 7 percent. Information released in May by the Department of Defense further buttresses the Saudi findings of a very low recidivism rate. The department’s list of named released detainees who have subsequently engaged in militant or terrorist activities anywhere in the world shows that 12 have done so, a recidivism rate of just 2 percent. In fact, the Pentagon can cite only six instances in which an inmate released from Guantánamo actually took up arms against the United States.

When recidivism rates for criminals typically run in the more than 60 percent range, and when at Guantánamo you have a rate in only the single digits, you don’t have much of a criminal (or in this case terrorist) population to begin with. We are hardly saying there are no terrorists at Guantánamo. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the operational commander of the 9/11 attacks, and others who were transferred there from secret overseas Central Intelligence Agency prisons in 2006 are certainly members of al Qaeda’s hard core.

What we are saying is that new statistics from the Saudi Ministry of Interior, corroborated by the Pentagon’s own findings, show that the overwhelming majority of individuals detained at Guantánamo not only were not terrorists, but were likely innocent of any crime.

(source)

wilk101 wrote:

I see no reason to close the faculity.

There's multiple sources claiming detainees have been tortured in the facility, even trustworthy sources like official UN observers. It's hard to impossible to find any solid numbers, but only minimum of the detainees was ever found guilty, and most sources say more than half were never accused in the first place. There's little doubt that the Geneva Conventions are being ignored there. US is waging a war "for freedom, democracy and human rights" yet you are so obviously denying the basic human rights to some, even without any evidence or even accusation, based solely on the presumption of guilt.

You see no reason why that facility should be closed? Seriously?

Let me ask a question then - if that US law didn't exclude US citizens from being allowed to be held in there, would you still support Guantanamo? Even if it meant the government could, at any time, take you and hold you prisoners for 6 years without ever presenting you with any reason, accusation or evidence? Do you fear terrorists more than you fear a government that has been given a free hand to act on its discretion, without need to provide any evidence or reasons?

I have had conversations about this to many and the simple response i give...I would rather take away the rights of an 800 or so accused persons then jeopardize the safety of 300 million Americans. After 9/11 here I am sticking to the safety. I do agree on the points MZ that clearly their rigyts are being cut off from other people in their position, however, this should not mean the prison should close and risk another attack. There are reasons why they are there. We just didn't go into a town say you him and her are guilty and throw em away. I stick to the reasons that I never again want an attack on my people in our homeland. For this I say keep it open. That is why it should stay open. I only want to make sure this type of thing (or worse for that matter) doesn't happen again. I think 300 million American lives trumps 800 people. Just my opinion though. This argument could go either way. I do get what you are saying, you look at it a different way then me. I just want safety as a priority and I feel if this is closed, safety will be lowered.

Also, in your source "A vast majority were never a threat" how do you suppose to pick who did and didn't do it? If all were let out I can almost guarantee with 99% accuracy that at least 1 of those people are a real and true danger to this country. With that being said, I believe the line drops there. Paranoia from 9/11 arose and there was a good reason for it. For it to never happen again. You have to realize as well as i do MZ that no evidence at all would be impossible to throw somebody away. They need to have something, some reason for the military to throw them away. If if they may be false, it is all to protect we the people. Finally, with your question of if american people could also be put into this prison would I still support it? That answer is yes. For all of the same reasons as listed previously. Safety is my number 1 concern. You look at the side of the person in the cell in the prison, I look at the side of the person in the country that put them there, and for reasons. If an American citizen was put into Guantanamo bay, I trust and believe that it is for good reason, safety. If they are a threat, I would be happy to see them locked away. All for the price of safety. That is why I wish to keep it open.

*sorry for the long post, just have a big opinion on it*

Closing it doesn't automatically mean releasing all the detainees. They're currently negotiating about where to put the ones that have any real evidence against them.

From what I have read majority of the detainees were no arrested by US at all, but brought by bounty hunters. There's serious concern about how many of them are just victim of someone else either wanting the money or taking personal vendettas.

The first quote I posted kinda sums it up, and it seems to build on official numbers: 2 percent recidivism rate. You can hardly achieve that in any other way than having lots of false positives.

I'm not saying you should release all the prisoners - but you should treat them like any other prisoner - acknowledging they have basic human rights, too. Otherwise you can only turn more innocent people into hating US and defending or retaliating themselves.

Major Zeman wrote:

Closing it doesn't automatically mean releasing all the detainees. They're currently negotiating about where to put the ones that have any real evidence against them.

From what I have read majority of the detainees were no arrested by US at all, but brought by bounty hunters. There's serious concern about how many of them are just victim of someone else either wanting the money or taking personal vendettas.

The first quote I posted kinda sums it up, and it seems to build on official numbers: 2 percent recidivism rate. You can hardly achieve that in any other way than having lots of false positives.

I'm not saying you should release all the prisoners - but you should treat them like any other prisoner - acknowledging they have basic human rights, too. Otherwise you can only turn more innocent people into hating US and defending or retaliating themselves.

Yes i totally agree the rights are definitley pitiful to those people and they should be increased. I do completly agree with you on that point MZ. The only reason I want to keep it up is just the reason safety. I don't want to see the chaos and terror of people losing loved ones and crying. I know you understand this. Your points are convincing and it does change my opinion partially. I still would wish for it to stay up, for the safety of not only America, who knows what some of these people were planning before they were captured? It could affect any of us. Just safety is all it is. That is also interesting about the bounty hunters. Usually they look for a specific person for some reason. I would hope evidence backs them up. Had never known some of these points before, but any way you slice it, one of those people that may be released could be a threat to any one of us.

The point I failed to put across in my first post that you corrected me on was the rights of the people. You can keep open the prison and still increase the rights, thereby corresponding both of our opinions and making everything fair for everyone.

alright... so we'll just call up the FBI and tell them you've been conducting terrorist activities wilk. you'll get sent to jail, and we will feel a lot safer. and if you meet the "profiel" of being a "terrorist", the most complete and unhonest BS compiled by the "elite" intelligence forces, then hooray, another innocent "terrorist" captured.


Good Job Everyone.

Hmpf. I think Guantanamo Bay Needed to be closed, America cannot be violating The Geneva Conventions, or being rumored to do it at our Do or Die moment, yes our do or die moment this Presidency really will decides our "Free Republic's" Future. The Last thing America needs is for MORE more anger coming from Our NATO and UN countries. By losing their support America will crumble. And more so, Guantanamo Bay is just been a hassle since it was made since the day Cuba shut of its Power to the Day UN inspectors said Human Rights were being Violated.

Bonds: EXTREME exaggeration to prove a point. Wilk's Constitutional Rights, Human Rights can't be stripped from him without substainial evidence, like him in a meeting with a Member of a terrorist Faction! an Americans rights a really only striped of him/her for High Treason, like in Harper's Ferry.






Oh btw, America isn't really a Democracy if you think about it, not to say its a bad thing, but in a democracy ANYONE could hold power, There would be no Electoral College, and a few more things amongst that! but those limitations have helped us greatly so I don't say we remove them.

Schickles wrote:

Bonds: EXTREME exaggeration to prove a point. Wilk's Constitutional Rights, Human Rights can't be stripped from him without substainial evidence, like him in a meeting with a Member of a terrorist Faction! an Americans rights a really only striped of him/her for High Treason, like in Harper's Ferry.

Yet the "Constitutional Rights, Human Rights" of a random afghan could be stripped like that. Since it was meant to show exactly this, the exaggeration hit the nail perfectly.

BarryBonds wrote:

alright... so we'll just call up the FBI and tell them you've been conducting terrorist activities wilk. you'll get sent to jail, and we will feel a lot safer. and if you meet the "profiel" of being a "terrorist", the most complete and unhonest BS compiled by the "elite" intelligence forces, then hooray, another innocent "terrorist" captured.


Good Job Everyone.

Clearly a rough way to prove a point. The activities going on there are to the point of safety for not only us but for everybody. You cant look somebody in the eye and say you want all of those people freed! You don't no more then I do. The reality is there are some extremely dangerous people there that need to be attened to. Saying that, do I agree with what America does there, of course not. You would be inhuman to agree. However, there is a way to increase rights to those people AND still keep the faculity open. Making the people that a truley dangerous to stay there. To your point of me just calling up the FBI and saying your a terrorist, no person smarter then a post would go off the story of a single person and you know that as well as I do.

wilk101 wrote:

Location : United States

If it was a good story it would have used You , MZ or someone else, only god knows that the day a American youth are thrown into a Terrorist holding faciility all hell will break loose

Schickles wrote:

wilk101 wrote:

Location : United States

If it was a good story it would have used You , MZ or someone else, only god knows that the day a American youth are thrown into a Terrorist holding faciility all hell will break loose

There will alwats be differing opinions between me and my european friends and I greatly respect that. Just thought it would be interesting to share an American point of view on the issue.

mines' canadian actually. and wilk, read up on both sides of the conflict in afghanistan and iraq; hell, even in canada and the US, a lot of people are getting picked on little to no evidence. you say no person smarter than a post would do that, i guess all the people who do it are just plain dumb, and so are the intelligence facets of the US government. Why? BECAUSE IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.
if you want to read the other side to stories on terrorism and the such, look up noam chomsky. Yes, he may be a polemic... but all his points and stories are factual.

well so far this man has had the best ideas plans to move this world forward i hope he has the strenght to stand up for what he believes and does what he says if he plays follow the majority like the rest have done then this global eceonmy problem is become more global in scale then it already has i am holdin out for him he seems to be the man who could make the historic type change that this world is despretly in need of right now

Guantanmo bay was a perfect example of how
'the bad side' presents itself in 'good people'

aren't you the same if you hurt the person that tries to hurt you?

terrorists are people of flesh and blood just like you

who gives you the right to torture them, don't look at the reason why you do it look at the act you are doing

you are torturing somebody...

i don't know that you can realize what torturing is unless you got tortured yourself (and no i haven't got tortured )

this is a sick way of stopping people to do what they do

do you actually believe that torturing people will stop them from bombing other people
humans are not only beasts but are sick beasts, that'sx what makes me sad

realizing i am just like those terrorists or those Guantanamo Bay guards
that i can also like these persons become a sick and perverted person, just because some other madman has put the fear in me

human history is a sad story that can only get sadder unless people try to stop other people becoming an animal like that

Just watched one of the best war movies that were ever made - MASH.
Not the series but the original movie!

Funny thing in those days also American film industry could make good war movies. Too bad they stopped with it and produced just heroe war trash for 20 years. When they will make such war balads again I know the US is on the right way again.