Philosophy

Hey I`m missing the old philosopy part of the forum.
We had some great discussions then ....

So I`ll start a new try with words that I heard today while jogging on radio.

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Hamlet

Absolut interesting!

....Did you know Hamlet died at the end of the story? AFTER he KILLED his uncle?

wel hamlet does have a point
since animals don't really think (thats of course discussible)
they cannot also see the difference between bad and good. they only do
so in their view there is no bad or no good there is just the act itself

If there is no good or bad then do what you want.
That`s your opinion?

I suppose whatever you assume is good or bad is what you crave. Although most people have the same basic idea of good and bad things, it is all how we portray them.

An animals choices and observations are made on an instinctual level and not in terms of good or bad.

We may see an animal hunting another animal and think how tragic or sad it is, but neither animal thinks of it that way.

Vice versa when an animal sees a person killing another person it observes the situation without judging it. (at least not in terms of good or bad, but maybe in terms of danger to itself) When a person sees the same thing they see it through the filter of their perceptions and prescribe to it all of the definitions that the situation requires in their mind (bad, tragic, wrong, evil)

Or what if the person being killed was someone like Hitler or Mussolini, does that change how it's defined?

Good and bad is an internal force projected outward from our minds.

Like the tree that falls without a sound when no ones there to hear it, all situations are neutral until we're there to judge it.

Humm....Did i mention Hamlet died after he killed his uncle?

Good and bad are just human terms that have nothing to do with the real world. They merely represent human perception of it.

Every human being forms their own perception of what's good and what's bad.

Therefore, there cannot be any objective definition of "good" and "bad".

Brings up the next question: Can we live without any order?

{AR}wulfman wrote:

Brings up the next question: Can we live without any order?

i dont think so.
The society has a incredible big influence on our physical and menatl life, so that we need rules and orders to survive

we are a social creature and even in the most basic social groups there are rules, also with animals. I don't think a world without rules can excist, let alone that we can live without them

sorry for my bad english in this topic btw

A world without rules is a world where the strongest animal/human is the boss.
But he would have nothing to say since there are no rules.. and we would end up killing eachother for nothing.

{AR}wulfman wrote:

Brings up the next question: Can we live without any order?

wictionary wrote:

order: The state of being well arranged

wictionary wrote:

to arrange: To set up, to organize, especially in a positive manner.

wikipedia wrote:

Social order is a concept used in sociology, history and other social sciences. It refers to a set of linked social structures, social institutions and social practices which conserve, maintain and enforce "normal" ways of relating and behaving.

A "social order" is a relatively stable system of institutions, pattern of interactions and customs, capable of continually reproducing at least those conditions essential for its own existence. The concept refers to all those facts of society which remain relatively constant over time. These conditions could include both property, exchange and power relations, but also cultural forms, communication relations and ideological systems of values.

None of these, apart of the "...especially in a positive manner", mention concepts like "good", "bad" etc.

You don't need them to set up order - having people believe your order is set up "for the general good" just helps against people complaining too much.

Let me tell you something.... IM GONNA TELL YOUR MOMMY AND DADDY WHAT YOU DID!



...Now lets see. If they come running to your house, spamring your doorbell, you've obviously done something 'wrong'


If they dont care...you've obviously done something 'right' by doing something 'VERY wrong'

Who said life had to be complicated eh?

{AR}wulfman wrote:

Brings up the next question: Can we live without any order?

I don't believe it's possible. Ever since the dawn of civilization there has been some type of order you always had some type of leader. Not every person had equal footing. This organization has worked for the most part unless you are to put power into the wrong hands. For most cases this doesn't happen so order does work. Basically without order leads to fighting for the power, which leads to chaos, which leads to killing, eventually there will be no people left on this earth if there is no order. Wars will break out all over the world, people will kill one another without a thought of it. There are some cons of order, but the pros definitely trump the cons. I don't believe there would be mankind without order that the world has established up to this day.

life without order wouldn't last long because of malcontents causing a need for them, but, if in a theoretical world were morality in people was always of good nature, Codes of conduct and law and order wouldn't be necessary because no good person would cross another knowingly.
Of course even those whom are moral can still in the path of good nature-ness could possibly cause a problem that would call for a higher power to create a code of conduct.

Law and order isn`t the same everywhere.
So when ppl come to us with other rules of order than we have had 1000s years long what`s then?

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Hamlet

If 99.99% of people in the World live as "slave" and only 00.01% are free thinkers and free ppl, who are we? Are we controling and manipulating by TV, Radio, Goverment etc. ? Are we really free?

Miko wrote:

If 99.99% of people in the World live as "slave" and only 00.01% are free thinkers and free ppl, who are we? Are we controling and manipulating by TV, Radio, Goverment etc. ? Are we really free?

Define what "really free" precisely means, then I'll answer you.

The answer is no, we're not really free.

A laws function is to restrict the freedom you have to do something. The question is how much freedom are we willing to pay for the price of security.

And if you know some of the things George Bush has done in his 8 years (wiretapping, patriot act, redefining habeas corpus) you have to know that not all laws are designed with "certain unalienable rights" in mind, and not everything the government does is done with the law in mind.

If you've never read or seen Naomi Wolf talk about the 10 steps to fascism you should google it.

Sweetness wrote:

The answer is no, we're not really free.

A laws function is to restrict the freedom you have to do something. The question is how much freedom are we willing to pay for the price of security.

And if you know some of the things George Bush has done in his 8 years (wiretapping, patriot act, redefining habeas corpus) you have to know that not all laws are designed with "certain unalienable rights" in mind, and not everything the government does is done with the law in mind.

If you've never read or seen Naomi Wolf talk about the 10 steps to fascism you should google it.

my opinion

"No one is free, because we are all free"

Meaning if someone really want's to say something what he thinks is right, he can't say it because he has to think about someone else, who gets as explaination offended by it.

I found thoose and wanna know how u find em (:
I was kinda touched.
And please no emo comments

original:
Gestern standen wir am Abgrund...
... heute sind wir einen Schritt weiter!

english:
Yesterday we stood at the abyss...
... today we are one step further!


original:
So ist das Leben: mal verliert man, mal gewinnen die anderen

english:
Such is life: sometimes you lose, sometimes the others win

Yggdrasil wrote:

english:
Yesterday we stood at the abyss...
... today we are one step further!

If you forget the scientifical progress: were are still standing at the abyss like we were when we first became conscious. Nothing has changed. Nothing will ever change.

{AR}SaKre wrote:

Yggdrasil wrote:

english:
Yesterday we stood at the abyss...
... today we are one step further!

If you forget the scientifical progress: were are still standing at the abyss like we were when we first became conscious. Nothing has changed. Nothing will ever change.

^^
But i did not forget the scientifical progress

{AR}SOCKS wrote:

We are nothing but a slimy animals..we just think that we are specials becouse we have a so called intelligence and religious..but we are not..we are nothing but a slimy animals who thinks that theres a God who saves our souls ..we just cant stop thinking what we will be after the death..we just cant stop thinking that our life must have some meaning --all is just a big fake..we are nothing but a slimy animals.

Theory of Socks Chapter I

We are all just smelly socks.
Socks Chapter II

{AR}SOCKS wrote:

We are nothing but a slimy animals..we just think that we are specials becouse we have a so called intelligence and religious..but we are not..we are nothing but a slimy animals who thinks that theres a God who saves our souls ..we just cant stop thinking what we will be after the death..we just cant stop thinking that our life must have some meaning --all is just a big fake..we are nothing but a slimy animals.

Theory of Socks Chapter I

well.. ye kinda . . . .!!!

i think we also need to be a bit positive about our selves

after all, who would be there to call a monkey a monkey and an ape a ape if our human kind didn't excisted. it would live in peace with nature. But who would be there to care about it?

in some ways i am proud of what we have achieved in our history and i think the human race needs to survive to seek out the big picture: what is behind the universe? are we created by someone? why do we live?

if we won't do it, nobody will, except for other intelligent live out there

but if we don't know there is any other intelligent live out there, we cannot abandon our 'quest' for the big answer

Word to yo mama, fo shizzle and this would be an accurate discription I'd say. Be it in pink.

And for the ET thingie Warno: The truth is out there! Just ask Fox.
But seriously, although subjectively, there are plenty of life forms 'out there', be it microsopical or gigantic. On that I would bet my mother, I like the ods.

Socks I just want to say I really enjoy reading your posts, you talk straight from your heart...I think that's really cool.

Sweetness wrote:

Socks I just want to say I really enjoy reading your posts, you talk straight from your heart...I think that's really cool.

absolutly right!!

SOCKS ROCKS

{AR}SOCKS wrote:

there really is many life form everywhere:

unfortunately allso every day some dies ..some births too..but if our weathers will be what every prophecies says..damn saves us , becous jesus doesnt then save the prayers..I feel so tired to see how we are polluting every day more and more..then we blames each others becouse of weather sucks everywhere..lol..its kind of funny too..becouse we still cant look the mirror and.. say: "Its my fault..Im the one of the many who destroy our beautiful planet"

no matter how much you think about saving earth things..its too late allready..we have allready reached our planets pop limit times ago and we need to pollute anyway now..natural cycles of earth been damaged too badly now..end comes..but when ..well..I think we all should enjoy as long as we can..thrust me..Hurricans..Volcanos explodings and Tsunamis are nothing comparing what will come on next 10-30 years when our poles BIG sweet ice fields will be blended to salty sea waters ..not completely maybe but enough , another thing is our UV protection,without that Sun just simply burst us like a Giant flamethrower,thats one reason of planets warming..simply our protection lows .and why I dont scare this SHIT anymore, becouse im realistic..I know that human race will allways survive..question is just how many of us will see the next tomorrow or how many ones childs will see it.

Theory Of Socks Chapter II

Theres this guy and his wife. The guy is basically rich, has money, nice house and everything. The whole enchalada. Now suddenly the woman and the man devorce. The woman, who didnt have a job, cause her husband provided for her is left with nothing. Normally, you'd say a woman who is used to a certain way of living will be able to live with the same standards as when she was married. Thats why they ex-husband is supposed to pay alimony. Cause appearantly it is very hard to change your way of living.

Now, as you all know (assuming you have been doing your homework when you got your historylessons), at the beginning of the 1900's the industrial revolution began. Thats when basically our technological advancements began.
Now, like a century later we are able to do amazing stuff, mostly cause of those advancements. But now that we have discovered our way of living is bad for the envoirments, we need to change things arround, cause basically its never to late to do so. Eventhough we got used to living the way we are.

Being realistic or not. Realism still needs optimism and dreaming. If they people who became before us only stayed realistic, you wouldnt have a computer right now for instance. Realism is exactly that what holds us back.

With that said, there was no way of us knowing we did something wrong, since you can only know you have done something wrong, when youve already done it, doesnt mean we cant turn things arround, or atleast slow things down till we do have the ability to turn things arround.

Just remember that it took a group (or rather a planets) effort to get where we are, so that doesnt mean we cant do it again. We just need to remind people that our offspring still need to be able to live on this planet.

We could do all sorts of things to get everyone within the plan for the future and some people might just think its redicules, but in the end....Force a human into a corner and it will react just the same as any other animal.

It fights back!


Thats the way of the Osiris. G'night.

triassic, when i reads socks posts i don't mind if tis pink$
but really i am not going to read your post because the red hurts my eye

Haha, now thats funny! I was writing in the dark, so black was hurting my eyes
Took alot of strain on my blindtypingskills

Anyways, changed it back for ya

Triassic wrote:

Haha, now thats funny! I was writing in the dark, so black was hurting my eyes
Took alot of strain on my blindtypingskills

Anyways, changed it back for ya

lol?